| Message ID | 87blfnhm8w.fsf@osv.gnss.ru (mailing list archive) |
|---|---|
| State | New, archived |
| Headers | show |
| Series | glossary: improve "branch" definition | expand |
Sergey Organov <sorganov@gmail.com> writes: > The old phrasing is at least questionable, if not wrong, as there are > a lot of branches out there that didn't see active development for > years, yet they are still branches, ready to become active again any > time. > > Signed-off-by: Sergey Organov <sorganov@gmail.com> > --- > Documentation/glossary-content.txt | 2 +- > 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) > > diff --git a/Documentation/glossary-content.txt b/Documentation/glossary-content.txt > index 090c888335d3..8bf198e72771 100644 > --- a/Documentation/glossary-content.txt > +++ b/Documentation/glossary-content.txt > @@ -18,7 +18,7 @@ > Untyped <<def_object,object>>, e.g. the contents of a file. > > [[def_branch]]branch:: > - A "branch" is an active line of development. The most recent > + A "branch" is a separate line of development. The most recent A dormant branch cannot be an "active" line of development, so in that sense, the original is wrong. The description is better without the adjective "active". But do we need to say "a separate line of development", instead of just "a line of development"? What is "a line of development" that is not separate? What extra pieces of information are we trying to convey by having the word "separate" there? > <<def_commit,commit>> on a branch is referred to as the tip of > that branch. The tip of the branch is referenced by a branch > <<def_head,head>>, which moves forward as additional development
Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com> writes: > Sergey Organov <sorganov@gmail.com> writes: > >> The old phrasing is at least questionable, if not wrong, as there are >> a lot of branches out there that didn't see active development for >> years, yet they are still branches, ready to become active again any >> time. >> >> Signed-off-by: Sergey Organov <sorganov@gmail.com> >> --- >> Documentation/glossary-content.txt | 2 +- >> 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) >> >> diff --git a/Documentation/glossary-content.txt b/Documentation/glossary-content.txt >> index 090c888335d3..8bf198e72771 100644 >> --- a/Documentation/glossary-content.txt >> +++ b/Documentation/glossary-content.txt >> @@ -18,7 +18,7 @@ >> Untyped <<def_object,object>>, e.g. the contents of a file. >> >> [[def_branch]]branch:: >> - A "branch" is an active line of development. The most recent >> + A "branch" is a separate line of development. The most recent > > A dormant branch cannot be an "active" line of development, so in > that sense, the original is wrong. The description is better > without the adjective "active". > > But do we need to say "a separate line of development", instead of > just "a line of development"? What is "a line of development" that > is not separate? What extra pieces of information are we trying to > convey by having the word "separate" there? I think it tries to convey a notion that 2 branches represent separate lines of development. I.e., that the whole purpose of branching is to provide support for independent, or parallel, or /separate/ lines of development. I'm not going to insist on the exact wording though, -- just wanted to bring attention to the issue, and "separate" was somehow the first word that came to mind when I edited the text. As an after-thought, I'd probably add that branch in Git is represented by a chain of commits, and then I'd refer to most recent commit of the chain, instead of most recent commit on the branch. That'd make definition more formal and precise. Makes sense? -- Sergey Organov
Sergey Organov <sorganov@gmail.com> writes: >> But do we need to say "a separate line of development", instead of >> just "a line of development"? What is "a line of development" that >> is not separate? What extra pieces of information are we trying to >> convey by having the word "separate" there? > > I think it tries to convey a notion that 2 branches represent separate > lines of development. I.e., that the whole purpose of branching is to > provide support for independent, or parallel, or /separate/ lines of > development. So in the context of talking about a branch, there is no need to say "a separate line". It only starts making sense to use the word "separate" whey you say "this is a line of development. By the way, there is another line of development that is separate from the first one". > I'm not going to insist on the exact wording though, -- just wanted to > bring attention to the issue, and "separate" was somehow the first word > that came to mind when I edited the text. > > As an after-thought, I'd probably add that branch in Git is represented > by a chain of commits, and then I'd refer to most recent commit of the > chain, instead of most recent commit on the branch. That'd make > definition more formal and precise. Makes sense? It brings up a more serious issue, though. o---o---o---o---x A / \ ---o---o---o---o---o---o---y B The only thing everybody can agree on in the above history is that commit 'x' is at the tip of the branch A, and commit 'y' is at the tip of the branch B, and 'y^' is on the branch B. There is no good answer to questions like where does branch 'A' begin? where does branch 'B' begin? Perhaps the merge to 'B' was from another branch that no longer exists (because the whole 4-commit chain was merged at that point to the integration branch 'B'), and 'A' was forked from that branch whose name was forgotten. Any commit in the history represents a line of development behind that commit, and whether a commit is pointed at by a ref does not change that. And development is not even a line when you include forking and merging. In the mental model of Git about branches, I think the only one thing people can agree on is that a branch points at a commit, and checking it out and making a commit on top of it will change that branch to point at the newly created commit. And this view supports the word "separate"---whether you have two branches pointing at the same commit or a different one, building a new commit on and advancing the tip of one branch does not affect the other branch. Come to think of it, the original "active" may not have been so bad a word to begin with. It is misleading in the sense that "active" used in the original statement does not mean "currently checked out", but if we read it as "potentially active---can grow in its own direction", it does convey that each branch can (although does not have to) represent its own line of development. So, I dunno. I'd say just settling on the simplest "is a line of development" would be the easiest path for now.
Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com> writes: > Sergey Organov <sorganov@gmail.com> writes: > >>> But do we need to say "a separate line of development", instead of >>> just "a line of development"? What is "a line of development" that >>> is not separate? What extra pieces of information are we trying to >>> convey by having the word "separate" there? >> >> I think it tries to convey a notion that 2 branches represent separate >> lines of development. I.e., that the whole purpose of branching is to >> provide support for independent, or parallel, or /separate/ lines of >> development. > > So in the context of talking about a branch, there is no need to say > "a separate line". It only starts making sense to use the word > "separate" whey you say "this is a line of development. By the way, > there is another line of development that is separate from the first > one". > >> I'm not going to insist on the exact wording though, -- just wanted to >> bring attention to the issue, and "separate" was somehow the first word >> that came to mind when I edited the text. >> >> As an after-thought, I'd probably add that branch in Git is represented >> by a chain of commits, and then I'd refer to most recent commit of the >> chain, instead of most recent commit on the branch. That'd make >> definition more formal and precise. Makes sense? > > It brings up a more serious issue, though. > > o---o---o---o---x A > / \ > ---o---o---o---o---o---o---y B > > The only thing everybody can agree on in the above history is that > commit 'x' is at the tip of the branch A, and commit 'y' is at the > tip of the branch B, Yeah, sure. > and 'y^' is on the branch B. I'm not that sure about 'y^', sorry, even if it now has no other references. I'm only sure that commits not reachable as first parents from B are not on the branch B, and that there is a chain, even if empty, from "Git branch B" (through first parent) that constitutes particular branch in the user domain. > There is no good answer to questions like > > where does branch 'A' begin? > where does branch 'B' begin? There is: "it's undefined". Why does it matter for definition of the term "branch"? I think it doesn't. Glossary didn't define where branches begin, and it'd still refuse to define it. What's the issue with that? Where exactly given branch starts lies entirely in the user domain, not in Git domain, so we don't need to define this in the Git glossary, I think. We can mention why we left it undefined though, if it makes sense. > > Perhaps the merge to 'B' was from another branch that no longer > exists (because the whole 4-commit chain was merged at that point to > the integration branch 'B'), and 'A' was forked from that branch > whose name was forgotten. Perhaps, but I can't see how it's relevant to the glossary. It'd be essential if Git remembered on which branch which commit has been created, but it (fortunately) doesn't, so it (fortunately) isn't. > Any commit in the history represents a line of development behind > that commit, and whether a commit is pointed at by a ref does not > change that. Sure. Moreover, user is free to consider this particular line of development to be a "branch", in his vocabulary. We do not call /every/ line of development "branch" in Git proper, or do we? I'd say that in Git proper "branch" is not a line of development at all, because Git doesn't care. > And development is not even a line when you include forking and > merging. Development isn't. A line of development is "a line" by definition though. > > In the mental model of Git about branches, I think the only one > thing people can agree on is that a branch points at a commit, and > checking it out and making a commit on top of it will change that > branch to point at the newly created commit. And this view supports > the word "separate"---whether you have two branches pointing at the > same commit or a different one, building a new commit on and > advancing the tip of one branch does not affect the other branch. So, as it does make sense, why don't we stick to "separate"? > Come to think of it, the original "active" may not have been so bad > a word to begin with. It is misleading in the sense that "active" > used in the original statement does not mean "currently checked > out", but if we read it as "potentially active---can grow in its own > direction", it does convey that each branch can (although does not > have to) represent its own line of development. I don't get it. "Potentially active" is not what is a distinction of the "branch". Every commit is potentially active: "git checkout <commit>" and grow new history out of it. Further, even current branch could be inactive, so I still fail to see any reason to use "active" in branch definition. > > So, I dunno. I'd say just settling on the simplest "is a line of > development" would be the easiest path for now. Thinking more about it, this first phrase is entirely user-domain entity, so we will have hard time to come up with strict definition anyway, and "is a line of development" is as fine with me as "is a separate line...", cause both have nothing to do with Git the program :-) Now, if we stay inside Git proper in the glossary, we'd need to get rid of this first phrase and stick to what "branch" is in Git. And in Git it's just a specific type of reference that (unlike, say, tags) follows new commits. It's interesting that from this definition follows that we may easily consider HEAD to be a meta-branch, that, in addition to properties of other branches, first, defines the point in the DAG new commits are to be grown from, and second, can point to another branch. For what it's worth, here is description of the "branch", as I see it: branch: /branch/ is the way to refer by name to particular line of development represented as a /chain/ of commits. /Branch/ is implemented as specific kind of /reference/, called branch /head/, that always points to the most recent commit of the branch /chain/ it gives name to. This most recent commit of the branch chain is referred to as the tip of the branch. Branch head moves forward along with the branch tip as branch chain grows due to addition of new commits. Git /repository/ can have an arbitrary number of branches, but your /working tree/ could be associated with at most one of them at any given time (the "current" or "checked out" branch), and special /reference/ called /HEAD/ points to the head of that branch in this case. Alternatively, /HEAD/ could point directly to a commit rather than to a branch head, in which case an unnamed chain will grow from this commit as additional commits are being made. This mode of operation is referred to as "detached HEAD", though for uniformity it could be regarded as being on "unnamed branch". You can still give name to this "unnamed branch" at any time thus turning it into yet another regular branch. -- Sergey Organov
Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com> writes: > Sergey Organov <sorganov@gmail.com> writes: > >>> But do we need to say "a separate line of development", instead of >>> just "a line of development"? What is "a line of development" that >>> is not separate? What extra pieces of information are we trying to >>> convey by having the word "separate" there? >> >> I think it tries to convey a notion that 2 branches represent separate >> lines of development. I.e., that the whole purpose of branching is to >> provide support for independent, or parallel, or /separate/ lines of >> development. > > So in the context of talking about a branch, there is no need to say > "a separate line". It only starts making sense to use the word > "separate" whey you say "this is a line of development. By the way, > there is another line of development that is separate from the first > one". [...] > In the mental model of Git about branches, I think the only one > thing people can agree on is that a branch points at a commit, and > checking it out and making a commit on top of it will change that > branch to point at the newly created commit. And this view supports > the word "separate"---whether you have two branches pointing at the > same commit or a different one, building a new commit on and > advancing the tip of one branch does not affect the other branch. So, what do we finally do? Just remove "active", or replace it with "separate"? It's fine with me either way. Will you just fix it yourself, or should I re-roll if "separate" is not accepted? -- Sergey
Sergey Organov <sorganov@gmail.com> writes: > So, what do we finally do? Just remove "active", or replace it with > "separate"? > ... > It's fine with me either way. Will you just fix it yourself, or should I > re-roll if "separate" is not accepted? Let's see ... gitster goes and looks for what he suggested ... So, I dunno. I'd say just settling on the simplest "is a line of development" would be the easiest path for now. I've queued the following. Thanks for pinging a stalled thread. --- >8 ------ >8 ------ >8 ------ >8 ------ >8 ------ >8 ------ >8 --- From: Sergey Organov <sorganov@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 23:05:51 +0300 Subject: [PATCH] glossary: improve "branch" definition The old phrasing is at least questionable, if not wrong, as there are a lot of branches out there that didn't see active development for years, yet they are still branches, ready to become active again any time. Signed-off-by: Sergey Organov <sorganov@gmail.com> Signed-off-by: Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com> --- Notes (amlog): Message-Id: <87blfnhm8w.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> Documentation/glossary-content.txt | 2 +- 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/Documentation/glossary-content.txt b/Documentation/glossary-content.txt index 090c888335..67c7a50b96 100644 --- a/Documentation/glossary-content.txt +++ b/Documentation/glossary-content.txt @@ -18,7 +18,7 @@ Untyped <<def_object,object>>, e.g. the contents of a file. [[def_branch]]branch:: - A "branch" is an active line of development. The most recent + A "branch" is a line of development. The most recent <<def_commit,commit>> on a branch is referred to as the tip of that branch. The tip of the branch is referenced by a branch <<def_head,head>>, which moves forward as additional development
Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com> writes: > Sergey Organov <sorganov@gmail.com> writes: > >> So, what do we finally do? Just remove "active", or replace it with >> "separate"? >> ... >> It's fine with me either way. Will you just fix it yourself, or should I >> re-roll if "separate" is not accepted? > > Let's see ... gitster goes and looks for what he suggested ... > > So, I dunno. I'd say just settling on the simplest "is a line of > development" would be the easiest path for now. > > I've queued the following. Nice, thanks! -- Sergey > > Thanks for pinging a stalled thread. > > --- >8 ------ >8 ------ >8 ------ >8 ------ >8 ------ >8 ------ >8 --- > From: Sergey Organov <sorganov@gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 23:05:51 +0300 > Subject: [PATCH] glossary: improve "branch" definition > > The old phrasing is at least questionable, if not wrong, as there are > a lot of branches out there that didn't see active development for > years, yet they are still branches, ready to become active again any > time. > > Signed-off-by: Sergey Organov <sorganov@gmail.com> > Signed-off-by: Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com> > --- > > Notes (amlog): > Message-Id: <87blfnhm8w.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> > > Documentation/glossary-content.txt | 2 +- > 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) > > diff --git a/Documentation/glossary-content.txt b/Documentation/glossary-content.txt > index 090c888335..67c7a50b96 100644 > --- a/Documentation/glossary-content.txt > +++ b/Documentation/glossary-content.txt > @@ -18,7 +18,7 @@ > Untyped <<def_object,object>>, e.g. the contents of a file. > > [[def_branch]]branch:: > - A "branch" is an active line of development. The most recent > + A "branch" is a line of development. The most recent > <<def_commit,commit>> on a branch is referred to as the tip of > that branch. The tip of the branch is referenced by a branch > <<def_head,head>>, which moves forward as additional development
diff --git a/Documentation/glossary-content.txt b/Documentation/glossary-content.txt index 090c888335d3..8bf198e72771 100644 --- a/Documentation/glossary-content.txt +++ b/Documentation/glossary-content.txt @@ -18,7 +18,7 @@ Untyped <<def_object,object>>, e.g. the contents of a file. [[def_branch]]branch:: - A "branch" is an active line of development. The most recent + A "branch" is a separate line of development. The most recent <<def_commit,commit>> on a branch is referred to as the tip of that branch. The tip of the branch is referenced by a branch <<def_head,head>>, which moves forward as additional development
The old phrasing is at least questionable, if not wrong, as there are a lot of branches out there that didn't see active development for years, yet they are still branches, ready to become active again any time. Signed-off-by: Sergey Organov <sorganov@gmail.com> --- Documentation/glossary-content.txt | 2 +- 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)